Shallow DVDs

[Skipweasel]

I have a large DVD rack on the wall. It's OK, but nearly full and I'd
like to molish a replacement. The old one was built purely to hold DVDs
with a few things on the curved ends of the shelves. But...I want the
arj one to take the telly as well. At the moment it's a 26" flat thing
and I have no plans to replace it and if it dies it'll get replaced with
the same size.

However, at the moment the DVD player and STB sit perched on top of a
sculpture on the floor. I'd like to build them in to the new rack but
they're too deep front to back.

I can probably fit the STB vertically behind the telly (there's about 3"
spare depth) and fit a long thin mirror or something so the IR control
still jbexes - or even more posh an IR booster.

My promble is the DVD player. The very shallowest I can get is still a
bit deeper than I'd like. Computer DVD drives have little ears that
catch a DVD when the tray is vertical - anyone seen the same on a
domestic "telly" DVD player?

[Catman]

Post by Skipweasel
I have a large DVD rack on the wall. It's OK, but nearly full and I'd
like to molish a replacement. The old one was built purely to hold DVDs
with a few things on the curved ends of the shelves. But...I want the
arj one to take the telly as well. At the moment it's a 26" flat thing
and I have no plans to replace it and if it dies it'll get replaced with
the same size.
However, at the moment the DVD player and STB sit perched on top of a
sculpture on the floor. I'd like to build them in to the new rack but
they're too deep front to back.
I can probably fit the STB vertically behind the telly (there's about 3"
spare depth) and fit a long thin mirror or something so the IR control
still jbexes - or even more posh an IR booster.
My promble is the DVD player. The very shallowest I can get is still a
bit deeper than I'd like. Computer DVD drives have little ears that
catch a DVD when the tray is vertical - anyone seen the same on a
domestic "telly" DVD player?

Thinner than this?
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/180410
or this is designed to be hung on the wall
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/164524
this appears to also be wall hung
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/165201

HTH

[®óñ© © ²°¹°-°¹]

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 08:26:57 +0000, Catman

Post by Catman
Thinner than this?
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/180410
or this is designed to be hung on the wall
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/164524
this appears to also be wall hung

IRTA "well hung"

[Catman]

Post by ®óñ© © ²°¹°-°¹
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 08:26:57 +0000, Catman

Post by Catman
Thinner than this?
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/180410
or this is designed to be hung on the wall
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/164524
this appears to also be wall hung

IRTA "well hung"

I read that as 'not surprised' ;)

[Skipweasel]

Post by Catman
Thinner than this?
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/180410
or this is designed to be hung on the wall
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/164524
this appears to also be wall hung
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/165201

The middle one's blue ray, which I refuse to buy into for many years to
come, but the last one definitely has possibilities - thanks.

[Catman]

Post by Skipweasel

Post by Catman
Thinner than this?
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/180410
or this is designed to be hung on the wall
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/164524
this appears to also be wall hung
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/165201

The middle one's blue ray, which I refuse to buy into for many years to
come

Cost, or idealism?

Post by Skipweasel
, but the last one definitely has possibilities - thanks.

De nada.

[Skipweasel]

Post by Catman

Post by Skipweasel
The middle one's blue ray, which I refuse to buy into for many years to
come

Cost, or idealism?

Principled objection to being sold something for which I have no use. We
have a small telly, it's not particularly close to the viewer and none
of us watch it sufficiently often or carefully to need higher
resolution. And we certainly don't need more "features". Blue ray exists
because the market for DVD players has become saturated and there's no
longer any zbarl to be made - so they came up with another chisel the
better to gouge the customer with.

[Catman]

Post by Skipweasel

Post by Catman

Post by Skipweasel
The middle one's blue ray, which I refuse to buy into for many years to
come

Cost, or idealism?

Principled objection to being sold something for which I have no use. We
have a small telly, it's not particularly close to the viewer and none
of us watch it sufficiently often or carefully to need higher
resolution. And we certainly don't need more "features". Blue ray exists
because the market for DVD players has become saturated and there's no
longer any zbarl to be made - so they came up with another chisel the
better to gouge the customer with.

I'd disagree with the view of the marketing, although you sound like you
don't need it.

I, personally, appreciate both the improved sound and visual quallity.

[Skipweasel]

Post by Catman
I, personally, appreciate both the improved sound and visual quallity.

I honestly don't think that even if I could discern them I'd give more
than a single passing hoot.

[bobharvey]

Post by Skipweasel

Post by Catman
I, personally, appreciate both the improved sound and visual quallity.

I honestly don't think that even if I could discern them I'd give more
than a single passing hoot.

Like this whole HD thing. Have you ever seen the footballistas in the
pub staring at a giant screen and saying "this would be so much more
watchable with 40% more lines"?

It's only the bl**dy X-factor. Get over it.

Nothing wrong with 625 lines. And in analogue there are no
compression artifacts to ubbgre up the picture.

[Catman]

Post by bobharvey

Post by Skipweasel

Post by Catman
I, personally, appreciate both the improved sound and visual quallity.

I honestly don't think that even if I could discern them I'd give more
than a single passing hoot.

Like this whole HD thing. Have you ever seen the footballistas in the
pub staring at a giant screen and saying "this would be so much more
watchable with 40% more lines"?

No, because the football is a single factor in the entire experience
which is combination of football match, group socialising, membership
affirmation etc etc.

Post by bobharvey
It's only the bl**dy X-factor. Get over it.

Well that's a waste of ones and zeroes in all possible resolutions.

Post by bobharvey
Nothing wrong with 625 lines. And in analogue there are no
compression artifacts to ubbgre up the picture.

There is nothing *wrong* with 625. Properly displayed, 1080 looks much
better.

Compression artefact should be avoided, tis true.

[Adrian C]

Post by bobharvey
Like this whole HD thing. Have you ever seen the footballistas in the
pub staring at a giant screen and saying "this would be so much more
watchable with 40% more lines"?

Indeedy. Had to stop, point and stare at this.

http://stophdtv.com/

[Catman]

Post by Adrian C

Post by bobharvey
Like this whole HD thing. Have you ever seen the footballistas in the
pub staring at a giant screen and saying "this would be so much more
watchable with 40% more lines"?

Indeedy. Had to stop, point and stare at this.
http://stophdtv.com/

Good Lord. I thought that kind of rabid response only happened on Usenet.

[bobharvey]

Post by Catman

Post by Adrian C
http://stophdtv.com/

Good Lord. I thought that kind of rabid response only happened on Usenet.

Some of his examples are overstated, and the language is hysterical,
but the underlying politics are sound. When 625 lines started, the
law required 405 lines to remain on-air for 20 years after the last
set was sold. There were still analogue sets in the shops this year,
particularly small sets - the kind poor people buy. The funtionallity
of digital systems is rather restricted cf analogue

We are having something similar happen with radio. No-one wants DAB
but there is talk of switching off analogue radio in a few years.

I have a more subtle reason for fearing the demise of analogue
broadcsting. I recall seeing a radio transmitter in a museum in
Cuba. It had been molished by a local doctor, and was used by Castros
men to communicate with the public before they siezed power. I've
made radios from a few bits of scrap. In WW2 p-o-w made crystal sets
with a blue razor blade as the diode. My first tv had 5 valves, my
first colour one 11.

With digital, none of this is remotely possible. Everything is
controlled. There are no pirate dab stations. Resistance is futile.
OK we have the internet, but Lord Voldeson wants all ISPs to be secret
policemen. It scares me a bit.

[John Williamson]

Post by bobharvey

Post by Catman

Post by Adrian C
http://stophdtv.com/

Good Lord. I thought that kind of rabid response only happened on Usenet.

Some of his examples are overstated, and the language is hysterical,
but the underlying politics are sound. When 625 lines started, the
law required 405 lines to remain on-air for 20 years after the last
set was sold. There were still analogue sets in the shops this year,
particularly small sets - the kind poor people buy. The funtionallity
of digital systems is rather restricted cf analogue
We are having something similar happen with radio. No-one wants DAB
but there is talk of switching off analogue radio in a few years.

I've heard it said that DAB radios bought here won't work in most other
countries and vice versa, so I'd virtually need a radio for each country
I travel through. The coach dash is already overcrowded. It may be
possible to build all the systems into one radio, but I'd hate to be the
one servicing it.

There's already talk of a new, incompatible with the old receivers,
version of DAB, so all those who've already bought DAB radios will have
to replace them well before the MTBF of the ones they've just bought.

Post by bobharvey
I have a more subtle reason for fearing the demise of analogue
broadcsting. I recall seeing a radio transmitter in a museum in
Cuba. It had been molished by a local doctor, and was used by Castros
men to communicate with the public before they siezed power. I've
made radios from a few bits of scrap. In WW2 p-o-w made crystal sets
with a blue razor blade as the diode. My first tv had 5 valves, my
first colour one 11.

And your digibox contains over a million transistors. Admittedly they're
in a handful of ICs, but the underlying complexity is there. As these
ICs are often unique to that unit or manufacturer, then when they run
out, that's it, more scrap for the bin.

Post by bobharvey
With digital, none of this is remotely possible. Everything is
controlled. There are no pirate dab stations. Resistance is futile.
OK we have the internet, but Lord Voldeson wants all ISPs to be secret
policemen. It scares me a bit.

Hear, hear!

[Sunny Bard]

Post by John Williamson
I've heard it said that DAB radios bought here won't work in most other
countries and vice versa, so I'd virtually need a radio for each country

All DAB in the UK is VHF band III, other countries use L band, my Pure
will receive either band, I'm not aware of any other bands in use by
DAB, though there are other systems such as DRM etc.

[bobharvey]

Post by Sunny Bard

Post by John Williamson
I've heard it said that DAB radios bought here won't work in most other
countries and vice versa, so I'd virtually need a radio for each country

All DAB in the UK is VHF band III, other countries use L band, my Pure
will receive either band, I'm not aware of any other bands in use by
DAB, though there are other systems such as DRM etc.

Most of the sets sold up to last year, even the L band capable ones
(which seem to be in a minority in the UK) are incompatible with the
new companding standards that the BBC rather charmingly calls DABII.
Unlike TVs, none of them seem capable of being updated 'over the air',
or indeed of being updated at all.

I don't like the buy-and-chuck economic model, and I don't like the
idea that the marketing claims made for my Sony were wrong at the time
and can be made even wronger at a stroke by the introduction of new
codecs.

[Sunny Bard]

Post by bobharvey
Most of the sets sold up to last year, even the L band capable ones
(which seem to be in a minority in the UK) are incompatible with the
new companding standards that the BBC rather charmingly calls DABII.

Is that DAB+ or something different?

Post by bobharvey
Unlike TVs, none of them seem capable of being updated 'over the air',
or indeed of being updated at all.

Yeah well no DVB-T tellys will be upgradable to DVB-T2

Post by bobharvey
I don't like the buy-and-chuck economic model

MNAAW

[bobharvey]

Post by Sunny Bard

Post by bobharvey
Most of the sets sold up to last year, even the L band capable ones
(which seem to be in a minority in the UK) are incompatible with the
new companding standards that the BBC rather charmingly calls DABII.

Is that DAB+ or something different?

I goove the implication is that DAB+ will do both DAB1 & DAB2, but I
don't follow it assiduously and the acronyms seem to change as often
as government hospital initiatives. It's all intended to deceive and
confuse, and in my case it is jbexing.

[John Williamson]

Post by Sunny Bard

Post by John Williamson
I've heard it said that DAB radios bought here won't work in most other
countries and vice versa, so I'd virtually need a radio for each country

All DAB in the UK is VHF band III, other countries use L band, my Pure
will receive either band, I'm not aware of any other bands in use by
DAB, though there are other systems such as DRM etc.

Checking on Wikip, it seems that any receiver I buy in the UK will work
here, maybe in the Netherlands , possibly in Belgium , almost certainly
not in France, and maybe in Germany. It should also work in Ireland, if
it can receive L-band. As that's my normal roaming area, it seems I'd
need a receiver(s) capable of receiving at least four different
standards. From reading various sources, I think my only option would
seem to be to buy a receiver for large amounts of zbarl, and try it out.
I know my requirements are unusual, but they're not *that* unusual.

There seems to be one chipset ( By Frontier Silicon, based in Berlin)
which will work in all markets, although the reference system is not
small, and draws over an amp at nine volts.

Hopefully, the situation will improve in the future.

I'd want to replace an FM receiver I can carry in my pocket without
noticing it, which drives headphones for a couple of days on a single
AAA cell, and works in all the countries I've ever visited.

[bobharvey]

Post by John Williamson
Hopefully, the situation will improve in the future.
I'd want to replace an FM receiver I can carry in my pocket without
noticing it, which drives headphones for a couple of days on a single
AAA cell, and works in all the countries I've ever visited.

I goove that DAB will always need more ergs per fortnight than
analogue. When it first came out I recalled building the Wireless
World teletext decodeer (3 big PCBs full of TTL) and gooved "I wonder
if I can molish one meself". The BBC technical dept. sent me the
spec, and a block diagram with 128 parallel fourier engines and I
gooved "Prolly not". And so it has proven. Even though silicon has
got smaller and cleverer there is a limit.

compare:
http://www.frontier-silicon.com/products/modules/venice5.0.htm
with:
http://www.rapidonline.com/resources/docs/82-1026.pdf

[Skipweasel]

Post by bobharvey
http://www.frontier-silicon.com/products/modules/venice5.0.htm

"a battery life of over 170 hours using six D cells, "

Ye gods! Given the radio's on at least ten hours a day here that's about
a fortnight's use.

[John Williamson]

Post by bobharvey

Post by John Williamson
Hopefully, the situation will improve in the future.
I'd want to replace an FM receiver I can carry in my pocket without
noticing it, which drives headphones for a couple of days on a single
AAA cell, and works in all the countries I've ever visited.

I goove that DAB will always need more ergs per fortnight than
analogue. When it first came out I recalled building the Wireless
World teletext decodeer (3 big PCBs full of TTL) and gooved "I wonder
if I can molish one meself". The BBC technical dept. sent me the
spec, and a block diagram with 128 parallel fourier engines and I
gooved "Prolly not". And so it has proven. Even though silicon has
got smaller and cleverer there is a limit.
http://www.frontier-silicon.com/products/modules/venice5.0.htm

BGA mounted chips..... Hopefully cheap enough that it's a throwaway item.

It'd give about a day's use from a single AA alkaline cell, less what's
needed to drive the earphone output.

Post by bobharvey
http://www.rapidonline.com/resources/docs/82-1026.pdf

A replacement for the ZN414. I remember using those back in the day...

My small mp3 player has a "Quite good for a portable" FM tuner built in,
using a DSP based system. It's a bit chunkier than a PP3 battery, and
uses a single AAA cell which lasts a couple of days. It's also a
recorder for FM and note taking (Half a Gig or so is available for
that). There's also the way it'll use a 2Gig SD card to store music.

When DAB can match that for what the mp3 player cost me (<20zu), I'll
buy in. I'd accept a slight increase in physical size only if I didn't
need a magnifying glass to read the display.

[Skipweasel]

Post by Sunny Bard

Post by John Williamson
I've heard it said that DAB radios bought here won't work in most other
countries and vice versa, so I'd virtually need a radio for each country

All DAB in the UK is VHF band III, other countries use L band, my Pure
will receive either band, I'm not aware of any other bands in use by
DAB, though there are other systems such as DRM etc.

It's more a matter of the codec than the band, so I understand.

[Roger Burton West]

Post by John Williamson

Post by bobharvey
We are having something similar happen with radio. No-one wants DAB
but there is talk of switching off analogue radio in a few years.

There's already talk of a new, incompatible with the old receivers,
version of DAB, so all those who've already bought DAB radios will have
to replace them well before the MTBF of the ones they've just bought.

DAB is basically rubbish for a variety of reasons. The one that
interests me is that, in order to have them built into hardware, the
codecs had to be standardised right back at the beginning of the
process... which was at a time when codec design was advancing _really
fast_. But everything always has to be Right Now for small children and
politicians, so the BBC didn't get the chance to say "hang on, let's
wait a few years for something better to come along"...

DAB is a second-rate compromise being mis-sold (not illegally sold, the
sales places _are allowed to put in local signal boosters and not tell
the punters about it_) as a quick money-grab. I will have nothing to do
with it.

It's not as though people were queueing up to ohl the FM channels that
the government wants to sell off.

[Catman]

Post by bobharvey

Post by Catman

Post by Adrian C
http://stophdtv.com/

Good Lord. I thought that kind of rabid response only happened on Usenet.

Some of his examples are overstated, and the language is hysterical,
but the underlying politics are sound. When 625 lines started, the
law required 405 lines to remain on-air for 20 years after the last
set was sold. There were still analogue sets in the shops this year,
particularly small sets - the kind poor people buy. The funtionallity
of digital systems is rather restricted cf analogue

Can you give me a example of a small, analogue set being sold this year
for less than say £99.99?

I've found a 7 portable on Amazon for £59, but I have to wonder how many
were *actually* sold.


In what way restricted? I'm not sure we even have the same definition of
functionality.

Post by bobharvey
We are having something similar happen with radio. No-one wants DAB
but there is talk of switching off analogue radio in a few years.

Well *I* quite like DAB, so to say that 'no one' wants it is patently
untrue. It certainly does have issues, that I'll grant you.

Post by bobharvey
I have a more subtle reason for fearing the demise of analogue
broadcsting. I recall seeing a radio transmitter in a museum in
Cuba. It had been molished by a local doctor, and was used by Castros
men to communicate with the public before they siezed power. I've
made radios from a few bits of scrap. In WW2 p-o-w made crystal sets
with a blue razor blade as the diode. My first tv had 5 valves, my
first colour one 11.
With digital, none of this is remotely possible. Everything is
controlled. There are no pirate dab stations. Resistance is futile.
OK we have the internet, but Lord Voldeson wants all ISPs to be secret
policemen. It scares me a bit.

I think you're being scared of the wrong things in a *big* way. I'll
give it 5 years *max* before DAB / DVB transmitters are widely available
to any hobbyist. cf. home PC, CD, DVD etc etc.

There is much to be scared of in terms of control and monitoring, but
that's not where I'd start.

[Sunny Bard]

I think you're being scared of the wrong things in a *big* way. I'll
give it 5 years *max* before DAB / DVB transmitters are widely available
to any hobbyist.

Given that the RAMDAC on a VGA card has been re-purposed as a DVB-T
encoder (on VHF not UHF) I'd say it was feasible to molish a pirate DAB
transmitter already - maybe it's just easier for the pirates to hfr
interwibble bandwidth?

[bobharvey]

Post by Catman
Can you give me a example of a small, analogue set being sold this year
for less than say £99.99?

Serpently. A neighbour bought a Bush one from Anglian Co-op. In
March. It has a molished in DVD player that won't play DVDs with
complex menus either. I advised him to return it on both grounds,
don't know if he did.

John Lewis is /still/ displaying pocket-portables with a 4" screen
that are analogue only.

[Catman]

Post by bobharvey

Post by Catman
Can you give me a example of a small, analogue set being sold this year
for less than say £99.99?

Serpently. A neighbour bought a Bush one from Anglian Co-op. In
March. It has a molished in DVD player that won't play DVDs with
complex menus either. I advised him to return it on both grounds,
don't know if he did.

How much was it?

Post by bobharvey
John Lewis is /still/ displaying pocket-portables with a 4" screen
that are analogue only.

Indeed. However, 'poor people' are not likely to be shopping [1] in
JL's. Should we protect everyone from bad purchasing decisions? Neither
do I see too many 'poor people' buying a pocket TV as a main set.

[1] IME. Of course they are 'Never knowingly undersold' but I think my
experience is fair.

[bobharvey]

Post by Catman

Post by Catman
Can you give me a example of a small, analogue set being sold this year
for less than say £99.99?

Serpently.  A neighbour bought a Bush one from Anglian Co-op.  In
March.  It has a molished in DVD player that won't play DVDs with
complex menus either.  I advised him to return it on both grounds,
don't know if he did.

How much was it?

Just less than a ton, I goove.

[Catman]

Post by bobharvey

Post by Catman

Post by bobharvey

Post by Catman
Can you give me a example of a small, analogue set being sold this year
for less than say £99.99?

Serpently. A neighbour bought a Bush one from Anglian Co-op. In
March. It has a molished in DVD player that won't play DVDs with
complex menus either. I advised him to return it on both grounds,
don't know if he did.

How much was it?

Just less than a ton, I goove.

So he could have bought a digital capable one.

[Skipweasel]

Post by Catman

Post by bobharvey

Post by Catman

Post by bobharvey

Post by Catman
Can you give me a example of a small, analogue set being sold this year
for less than say £99.99?

Serpently. A neighbour bought a Bush one from Anglian Co-op. In
March. It has a molished in DVD player that won't play DVDs with
complex menus either. I advised him to return it on both grounds,
don't know if he did.

How much was it?

Just less than a ton, I goove.

So he could have bought a digital capable one.

I rather think that's the point - unscrupulous people are still selling
equipment which is obsolescent.

[Catman]

Post by Skipweasel

Post by Catman

Post by bobharvey

Post by Catman

Post by bobharvey

Post by Catman
Can you give me a example of a small, analogue set being sold this year
for less than say £99.99?

Serpently. A neighbour bought a Bush one from Anglian Co-op. In
March. It has a molished in DVD player that won't play DVDs with
complex menus either. I advised him to return it on both grounds,
don't know if he did.

How much was it?

Just less than a ton, I goove.

So he could have bought a digital capable one.

I rather think that's the point - unscrupulous people are still selling
equipment which is obsolescent.

Ahh I *see*. I'm not sure how this is the fault of HD TV though?

[Skipweasel]

Post by Catman

Post by Skipweasel
I rather think that's the point - unscrupulous people are still selling
equipment which is obsolescent.

Ahh I *see*. I'm not sure how this is the fault of HD TV though?

It's a fault with the way it's being foisted on a largely unsuspecting public.

[bobharvey]

Post by Skipweasel

Post by Catman

Post by Skipweasel
I rather think that's the point - unscrupulous people are still selling
equipment which is obsolescent.

Ahh I *see*. I'm not sure how this is the fault of HD TV though?

It's a fault with the way it's being foisted on a largely unsuspecting public.

yes. Not just unsuspecting, but unsophisticated. A relative tried to
ohl a digital wireless and ended up with an FM set with a digital
display. "It says digital on the box". It wasn't just him that could
not comprehend the difference, nor could the sales droid who fobbed
him off with it.

[Catman]

Post by Skipweasel

Post by Catman

Post by Skipweasel
I rather think that's the point - unscrupulous people are still selling
equipment which is obsolescent.

Ahh I *see*. I'm not sure how this is the fault of HD TV though?

It's a fault with the way it's being foisted on a largely unsuspecting public.

Sounds more like a fault with specific, unscrupulous retailers.

[bobharvey]

Post by Catman

Post by Skipweasel
I rather think that's the point - unscrupulous people are still selling
equipment which is obsolescent.

Ahh I *see*. I'm not sure how this is the fault of HD TV though?

It's the politics. Like I said the gubbermint required the VHF
transmitters to stay on air for 20 years after the last VHF set was
sold, but is /forcing/ the latest switch off even while analogue
equipment is still being sold to the unwitting.

Since there are no set manufacturers in the UK any more, I can't see
who the government is benefiting with this act of petulance. Unless it
be their chums who have yachts, of course.

[Catman]

Post by bobharvey

Post by Catman

Post by Skipweasel
I rather think that's the point - unscrupulous people are still selling
equipment which is obsolescent.

Ahh I *see*. I'm not sure how this is the fault of HD TV though?

It's the politics. Like I said the gubbermint required the VHF
transmitters to stay on air for 20 years after the last VHF set was
sold, but is /forcing/ the latest switch off even while analogue
equipment is still being sold to the unwitting.

I can see that an enforced period after cessation of sales may well be a
good thing. If it were actually enforceable these days may be a
different matter.

Post by bobharvey
Since there are no set manufacturers in the UK any more, I can't see
who the government is benefiting with this act of petulance. Unless it
be their chums who have yachts, of course.

Anyone that wants to shift stock of analogue TV's and has any influence
with government I would expect. Follow the money.

[Sunny Bard]

Post by bobharvey
Like this whole HD thing. Have you ever seen the footballistas in the
pub staring at a giant screen and saying "this would be so much more
watchable with 40% more lines"?

Not in such precise terms (isn't it more like 108%, yer 625 system only
gets you about 525 watchable lines vs 1080)

But I have overheard a conversation praising the improvement of HD
foolball over SD foolball, I didn't like to correct the proud owner of
the Emperor's new TV when he said it was an LED display rather than an
LCD with LED backlighting, and that it would be capable of receiving
FreeviewHD next year.

[bobharvey]

Post by Sunny Bard

Like this whole HD thing.  Have you ever seen the footballistas in the
pub staring at a giant screen and saying "this would be so much more
watchable with 40% more lines"?

Not in such precise terms (isn't it more like 108%, yer 625 system only
gets you about 525 watchable lines vs 1080)

Yehbut the footy is only in 720i, 'cos the real-time compressors don't
do 1080p on fast moving sports. Recorded action may be different.

[Sunny Bard]

Post by bobharvey
Yehbut the footy is only in 720i

OiC, or rather I never have seen.

Post by bobharvey
'cos the real-time compressors don't
do 1080p on fast moving sports. Recorded action may be different.

I though murdochvision only did 1080i?

[m***@privacy.net]

On 14 Dec,

Post by Sunny Bard

Post by bobharvey
Yehbut the footy is only in 720i

OiC, or rather I never have seen.

Post by bobharvey
'cos the real-time compressors don't
do 1080p on fast moving sports. Recorded action may be different.

I though murdochvision only did 1080i?

I goove the system should be able to qb 1080p for more detail or 720i for
faster action at th same bitrate. They're prolly dumbing it down.

I unforget watching swimmin in the barcelona limp pics. The flutterby
swimmer's arms disappeared when they came out of the water and re-appeared as
they went back in, the flfgrz couldn't cope with the motion. The bits were
prolly seasick on the way back through the æther.

[John Williamson]

Post by m***@privacy.net
I unforget watching swimmin in the barcelona limp pics. The flutterby
swimmer's arms disappeared when they came out of the water and re-appeared as
they went back in, the flfgrz couldn't cope with the motion. The bits were
prolly seasick on the way back through the æther.

While we're on encoding/ decoding oddnesses, is it normal for a
momentary freeze to occur at random intervals on all SD freeview
channels that I can actually watch, as against the many that don't work
at all, or do I probably need a new aerial?

It occurs with two different STBs and is bloomin' distracting.

[m***@privacy.net]

On 14 Dec,

Post by John Williamson
While we're on encoding/ decoding oddnesses, is it normal for a
momentary freeze to occur at random intervals on all SD freeview
channels that I can actually watch, as against the many that don't work
at all, or do I probably need a new aerial?

No, It's interference. A thermostat or something. Prolly arj aerial of feeder
needed.

But look here first:

<http://www.paras.org.uk/>

If you're not already in a narea wiv no analogue left then the signal
strength will improve when any log is switched off so reception will improve.

Is there any snow/interference on any log?

[John Williamson]

Post by m***@privacy.net
On 14 Dec,

Post by John Williamson
While we're on encoding/ decoding oddnesses, is it normal for a
momentary freeze to occur at random intervals on all SD freeview
channels that I can actually watch, as against the many that don't work
at all, or do I probably need a new aerial?

No, It's interference. A thermostat or something. Prolly arj aerial of feeder
needed.

That's what I was afraid of. The only thermostat on my premises that's
working all the time is in the fridge.

Post by m***@privacy.net
<http://www.paras.org.uk/>
If you're not already in a narea wiv no analogue left then the signal
strength will improve when any log is switched off so reception will improve.
Is there any snow/interference on any log?

Channel 5's always been weak, and I can receive *lots* of different
versions of the other channels with a whip on a pocket TV. Signal
strength as shown on the OSD is about 50% on multiplexes with unusable
signal, about 80% on the usable ones.

It seems I need to liberate the moths from my wallet again...

[Skipweasel]

Post by John Williamson
It seems I need to liberate the moths from my wallet again...

Talking of which...

My Christmas present from Squid and the kids arrived. When I say it's
mine - it's a networkable colour laser printer - a Samsung CLP-310n.
Having played a bit with it, it's exactly what I wanted. Fast, clean,
doesn't dry out, quiet, networked, compact. The image quality is good
enough - it's not meant for display quality photos, those I'll continue
to order from Photobox and let them have the expense of maintaining
multi-tens-of-thousands-of-pounds printers.

[Znep]

In uk.rec.sheds, (Skipweasel) wrote in

Post by Skipweasel

Post by John Williamson
It seems I need to liberate the moths from my wallet again...

Talking of which...
My Christmas present from Squid and the kids arrived. When I say it's
mine - it's a networkable colour laser printer - a Samsung CLP-310n.
Having played a bit with it, it's exactly what I wanted. Fast, clean,
doesn't dry out, quiet, networked, compact. The image quality is good
enough - it's not meant for display quality photos, those I'll continue
to order from Photobox and let them have the expense of maintaining
multi-tens-of-thousands-of-pounds printers.

Good, yer Samsungs. I have a CLP-550N of some three years' vintage, and
jolly good it is. I've just replaced the toners, at a cost of about a
ton.

[Skipweasel]

Post by Znep
Good, yer Samsungs. I have a CLP-550N of some three years' vintage, and
jolly good it is. I've just replaced the toners, at a cost of about a
ton.

Which sounds a lot until you think how much a full set of inkjet carts
costs and how crap they are.

[m***@privacy.net]

On 14 Dec,

Post by Skipweasel
Which sounds a lot until you think how much a full set of inkjet carts
costs and how crap they are.

After nearly 5 years (and one B&W replacement) my magicolor clams that al the
colour toner cartridges are empty. It still prints fine. I've got a spare set
behind the sofa ohled 3 years ago on Ebay when the cyan said it was empty.
One day I'll fit it when the currant set fails to print. It may see me out.

It prints first thyme when it is needed, I unforget lots of immoderate
language etc. when trying to hfr inkjets.

It's most hfrful having netjbexed printers. the only trouble is no-one else
/ever/ tops up the paper.

[Skipweasel]

Post by m***@privacy.net
It prints first thyme when it is needed, I unforget lots of immoderate
language etc. when trying to hfr inkjets.

The former is why I wanted a laser, the latter is why the family wanted
me to have one.

Post by m***@privacy.net
It's most hfrful having netjbexed printers. the only trouble is no-one else
/ever/ tops up the paper.

Bit like sharing a flat, then.

[Pedt <"\"@ @\""@some.oddities-etc.co.uk>]

Post by Znep
In uk.rec.sheds, (Skipweasel) wrote in

Post by Skipweasel

Post by John Williamson
It seems I need to liberate the moths from my wallet again...

Talking of which...
My Christmas present from Squid and the kids arrived. When I say it's
mine - it's a networkable colour laser printer - a Samsung CLP-310n.

Good, yer Samsungs. I have a CLP-550N of some three years' vintage, and
jolly good it is. I've just replaced the toners, at a cost of about a
ton.

I've had a CLP-300 for a couple of years now and it's been ded gud.
Notjbexed on a print server, only been one accident with it when the
toner got nuked - SWWTM accidentally sent it a 1000 page full colour
cookery PDF and there was only enough toner left for a couple of 100
pages ~ the default on that machine is now to print to PDF!

[Lizz Holmans]

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:34:31 GMT, Skipweasel

Post by Skipweasel

Post by John Williamson
It seems I need to liberate the moths from my wallet again...

Talking of which...
My Christmas present from Squid and the kids arrived. When I say it's
mine - it's a networkable colour laser printer - a Samsung CLP-310n.
Having played a bit with it, it's exactly what I wanted. Fast, clean,
doesn't dry out, quiet, networked, compact. The image quality is good
enough - it's not meant for display quality photos, those I'll continue
to order from Photobox and let them have the expense of maintaining
multi-tens-of-thousands-of-pounds printers.

How nice to get exactly what you like.

I had a bit of a scare today, what with the kids coming over and BA
calling a strike over the holidays...the day after they come over,
ending the day before they leave,

The Mutant's flying with Delta, so he just has to deal with the
inedible food and teeny tiny little seating space.

I'm scared spitless, of course.

LizzH.

--

Whatever happened to linoleum floors, petroleum jelly and two world wars?

http://www.fannation.com/blogs/show/826793-cricket-she-wrote

[bobharvey]

Post by John Williamson
While we're on encoding/ decoding oddnesses, is it normal for a
momentary freeze to occur at random intervals on all SD freeview
channels that I can actually watch, as against the many that don't work
at all, or do I probably need a new aerial?
It occurs with two different STBs and is bloomin' distracting.

Freezing and blocking. The digital equivalent of snow on the picture,
and a damn sight more intrusive in my opinion. Typical causes: badly
suppressed car engines (not just old ford cortinas, I know a brand new
beemer that c auses it), light dimmers, electro-magnetic 'smog' from
powerlines feeding industrial plant with lots of motor speed
controllers, or our old fiend taxi radio links. Plug-in antenna
amplifers are bad too, usually.

Solution 1: replace antenna downlead with double - shield type (sat100
or sat 120); Solution 2: higher gain antenna - but in some areas you
need a broadband one anyway and it all gets a bit iffy. Solution 3:
wait for switchover, when the transmetter power goes up. Solution 4:
switch to freesat.

[John Williamson]

Post by bobharvey

Post by John Williamson
While we're on encoding/ decoding oddnesses, is it normal for a
momentary freeze to occur at random intervals on all SD freeview
channels that I can actually watch, as against the many that don't work
at all, or do I probably need a new aerial?
It occurs with two different STBs and is bloomin' distracting.

Freezing and blocking. The digital equivalent of snow on the picture,
and a damn sight more intrusive in my opinion. Typical causes: badly
suppressed car engines (not just old ford cortinas, I know a brand new
beemer that c auses it), light dimmers, electro-magnetic 'smog' from
powerlines feeding industrial plant with lots of motor speed
controllers, or our old fiend taxi radio links. Plug-in antenna
amplifers are bad too, usually.
Solution 1: replace antenna downlead with double - shield type (sat100
or sat 120); Solution 2: higher gain antenna - but in some areas you
switch to freesat.

Solution 5: Stop watching TV. There's not all that much on that I want
to watch anyway.

I was wondering if it was just one of those things that we had to put up
with in the name of having 50 channels of rubbish instead of five
channels of reasonably good programmes.

The needed solution will almost certainly be a combination of 1: and 2:,
unfortunately. The aerial and downlead were both here when I bought the
place in 2000. I suspect about 150ZU altogether, as ICBA going up a
ladder clutching a masonry drill to put up new bracketry near roof level.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:39:32 +0000

Post by John Williamson
Solution 5: Stop watching TV. There's not all that much on that I want
to watch anyway.

Every thyme I find something that I actually enjoy watching the
abstrads go and cancel it with one notable exception and that got seriously
messed around with this year.

[Dave Budd]

In article <90a52f8a-90fa-435f-b2c3-05f856e69156
@f16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, ***@my-deja.com says...

Post by bobharvey
switch to freesat.

We get freezes of up to 5 seconds (feels longer) occasionally from
satellite (Sky+).
But it may be dodgy firmware in the box, of course.

[Catman]

Post by Dave Budd
In article <90a52f8a-90fa-435f-b2c3-05f856e69156
@f16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, ***@my-deja.com says...

Post by bobharvey
switch to freesat.

We get freezes of up to 5 seconds (feels longer) occasionally from
satellite (Sky+).
But it may be dodgy firmware in the box, of course.

Or a dying hard drive.

[bobharvey]

Post by Dave Budd
In article <90a52f8a-90fa-435f-b2c3-05f856e69156
@f16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, ***@my-deja.com says...

Post by bobharvey
switch to freesat.

We get freezes of up to 5 seconds (feels longer) occasionally from
satellite (Sky+).
But it may be dodgy firmware in the box, of course.

Or watter in't wires. Happened to me. Signal strength reduced so
that just occasionally it dips below detection level.

[Lizz Holmans]

Post by Dave Budd
In article <90a52f8a-90fa-435f-b2c3-05f856e69156
@f16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, ***@my-deja.com says...

Post by bobharvey
switch to freesat.

We get freezes of up to 5 seconds (feels longer) occasionally from
satellite (Sky+).
But it may be dodgy firmware in the box, of course.

That happens every time it rains for us just oop road.

LizzH.


--

Whatever happened to linoleum floors, petroleum jelly and two world wars?

http://www.fannation.com/blogs/show/826793-cricket-she-wrote

[Pedt <"\"@ @\""@some.oddities-etc.co.uk>]

In message
<90a52f8a-90fa-435f-b2c3-***@f16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, at
09:03:14 on Mon, 14 Dec 2009, bobharvey <***@my-deja.com>
wibbled

Post by bobharvey

Post by John Williamson
While we're on encoding/ decoding oddnesses, is it normal for a
momentary freeze to occur at random intervals on all SD freeview
channels that I can actually watch, as against the many that don't work
at all, or do I probably need a new aerial?
It occurs with two different STBs and is bloomin' distracting.

Freezing and blocking. The digital equivalent of snow on the picture,
and a damn sight more intrusive in my opinion. Typical causes: badly
suppressed car engines (not just old ford cortinas, I know a brand new
beemer that c auses it), light dimmers, electro-magnetic 'smog' from
powerlines feeding industrial plant with lots of motor speed
controllers, or our old fiend taxi radio links.

Happens here at the moment on some channels every time a car comes down
the road.

Mined ewe, I'm pointed at The Wrekin but never got it, always picked up
Sutton Coldfield. With the current digital twiddling I've suddenly now
got both showing up, though what I'm expected to do with S4C I'm not
quite sure! Oh, and I've lost Film4 which is a bit miff-molishing.

[m***@privacy.net]

On 14 Dec,

Post by Sunny Bard
Not in such precise terms (isn't it more like 108%, yer 625 system only
gets you about 525 watchable lines vs 1080)

And in reality is half that for colour.

Post by Sunny Bard
But I have overheard a conversation praising the improvement of HD
foolball over SD foolball, I didn't like to correct the proud owner of
the Emperor's new TV when he said it was an LED display rather than an
LCD with LED backlighting, and that it would be capable of receiving
FreeviewHD next year.

My HD TV (downscaled to 700ish lines is certainly better than SD, both as
broadcast. however SD has been dumbed down to accommodate more silly
fubccvat channels so that it is often lower definition than 405 wwp was.

BBC HD recently had it's bit rate cut by 50% on sat. So as to match what is
going to be on freeview. Noticably more blurry. SD is going to be the arj HD
(or vice wersa).

SD is capable of a lot more than it's allowed to be, HD a considerable lot
more. I would need a 40" screen just where my feet are when I am in WWP
watching mode.

It's just like DAB, capable of egg sealant resilts, but dumbed down to
boiling mud!

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:54:48 GMT

Post by Skipweasel

Post by Catman

Post by Skipweasel
The middle one's blue ray, which I refuse to buy into for many years
to come

Cost, or idealism?

Principled objection to being sold something for which I have no use. We
have a small telly, it's not particularly close to the viewer and none
of us watch it sufficiently often or carefully to need higher
resolution. And we certainly don't need more "features". Blue ray exists
because the market for DVD players has become saturated and there's no
longer any zbarl to be made - so they came up with another chisel the
better to gouge the customer with.

Well yes but when blank rewritable media and burners become
sufficiently purnc it'll be ded gud for backups.

[bobharvey]

Post by Skipweasel
I have a large DVD rack on the wall. It's OK, but nearly full and I'd
like to molish a replacement. The old one was built purely to hold DVDs
with a few things on the curved ends of the shelves. But...I want the
arj one to take the telly as well. At the moment it's a 26" flat thing
and I have no plans to replace it and if it dies it'll get replaced with
the same size.
However, at the moment the DVD player and STB sit perched on top of a
sculpture on the floor. I'd like to build them in to the new rack but
they're too deep front to back.
I can probably fit the STB vertically behind the telly (there's about 3"
spare depth) and fit a long thin mirror or something so the IR control
still jbexes - or even more posh an IR booster.
My promble is the DVD player. The very shallowest I can get is still a
bit deeper than I'd like. Computer DVD drives have little ears that
catch a DVD when the tray is vertical - anyone seen the same on a
domestic "telly" DVD player?

Humax tellies sometimes come with DVD layers built in behind them.
They use a vertical drive.

'ave a look at http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?moduleno=224977.
It's 40zu and quite small. At that price you could unmolish it from
the case and build the bits into the woodjbex. You might need an
xtension cable or two, but I'd bet half an hour's overtime that the
drive tray is connected with a standard computer plugge.

[Skipweasel]

The message

Post by bobharvey
'ave a look at http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?moduleno=224977.
It's 40zu and quite small. At that price you could unmolish it from
the case and build the bits into the woodjbex. You might need an
xtension cable or two, but I'd bet half an hour's overtime that the
drive tray is connected with a standard computer plugge.

Yeah, it occured to me after I asked that I could probably just remove
the drive from a cheapo DVD player and mount it wherever I like.